When Michael and Ashlee Cramer, voices behind the "Michael and Mom Talk Cancer Podcast," sit down with us, the room fills with an undeniable strength that only the battle-scarred possess. Through their stories, we're reminded that trauma doesn't just leave a financial dent—it reshapes hearts and minds. Our conversation winds through the realities of post-cancer PTSD, the grief of lost loved ones, and the toll these experiences take on family ties. Michael's candid sharing of his mental health struggles post-treatment, paired with Ashlee's poignant reflections on coping with her husband's passing before facing her son's diagnosis, capture the essence of human resilience.
But it's not all weighty talks about the inner scars that linger long after illness has passed. Our dialogue branches out, discovering humor in the quirks of overprotective parenting and the bizarre claims of exotic health fads—because sometimes, the sheer absurdity of life calls for a good laugh. These moments of levity serve as a reminder that joy and sorrow often intertwine, offering balance even when we're exploring the depths of our vulnerabilities. The Cramers' journey underlines the need for mental health awareness and support, sparking conversations that push us to confront our emotions to heal truly.
The path to reclaiming normalcy is a hike with more twists than a mountain trail, and we're here for every challenging step. We delve into the struggle of accepting compliments in the throes of illness, and what it means to keep pushing forward when life serves a cocktail of chaos. It's not just about the big moments—the Cramer's open up about the daily grind, the small victories, and how we all find strength in the stories we share. So gather 'round as we navigate the intricate dance of trauma and triumph, where laughter and tears are both welcomed guests at the table of recovery.
Here is the link to their "These Fukken Feelings Podcast Episode:
https://youtu.be/rxcFRJuzvJA?si=PLEauoq0hEAEBWi2
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-resilience-and-unbreakable-bonds-a/id1580667655?i=1000615094979
When Michael and Ashlee Cramer, voices behind the "Michael and Mom Talk Cancer Podcast," sit down with us, the room fills with an undeniable strength that only the battle-scarred possess. Through their stories, we're reminded that trauma doesn't just leave a financial dent—it reshapes hearts and minds. Our conversation winds through the realities of post-cancer PTSD, the grief of lost loved ones, and the toll these experiences take on family ties. Michael's candid sharing of his mental health struggles post-treatment, paired with Ashlee's poignant reflections on coping with her husband's passing before facing her son's diagnosis, capture the essence of human resilience.
But it's not all weighty talks about the inner scars that linger long after illness has passed. Our dialogue branches out, discovering humor in the quirks of overprotective parenting and the bizarre claims of exotic health fads—because sometimes, the sheer absurdity of life calls for a good laugh. These moments of levity serve as a reminder that joy and sorrow often intertwine, offering balance even when we're exploring the depths of our vulnerabilities. The Cramers' journey underlines the need for mental health awareness and support, sparking conversations that push us to confront our emotions to heal truly.
The path to reclaiming normalcy is a hike with more twists than a mountain trail, and we're here for every challenging step. We delve into the struggle of accepting compliments in the throes of illness, and what it means to keep pushing forward when life serves a cocktail of chaos. It's not just about the big moments—the Cramer's open up about the daily grind, the small victories, and how we all find strength in the stories we share. So gather 'round as we navigate the intricate dance of trauma and triumph, where laughter and tears are both welcomed guests at the table of recovery.
Here is the link to their "These Fukken Feelings Podcast Episode:
https://youtu.be/rxcFRJuzvJA?si=PLEauoq0hEAEBWi2
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-resilience-and-unbreakable-bonds-a/id1580667655?i=1000615094979
Hello there, brave souls, welcome to Trauma is Expensive, with your host, micah Bravery. Here we don't just talk about trauma, we count the cost and we make the change. With every episode, we dive deep into the heart of trauma, its implications and the resilient transformations it can ignite, through conversations, insights, real stories and unflinching honesty. This podcast is here to empower every survivor to turn their pain into progress. So let's take a journey together as we understand, confront and finally heal. Welcome to wwwtraumaisexpensivecom, your platform for change. Now let's get started.
Speaker 2:What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of Trauma is Expensive. I am your host, Micah, here, with my producing co-host, crystal Hello, and our two special special guests, michael and Ashley Kramer from the Michael and Mom Talk Cancer Podcast. Hello guys, hello, hello, hello, hello hello, what's up.
Speaker 4:We're so excited to be here with you.
Speaker 2:We're excited to have you. If you guys don't know, michael and Ashley were on an episode of these fucking feelings podcast. We'll put it in the link, but make sure you go check it out and just support them and everything they do. Big Cancer Advocates and today we're just going to have a conversation about trauma and some costs behind it. Oh yeah, we know just a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:We know a lot about trauma. This is our field of expertise.
Speaker 2:Right, this is our day, so you know we like to let our guests dictate the conversation, how it goes. So we ask you guys to start off for us, and what did you want to speak about today?
Speaker 4:Well that's a loaded question, Michael. I'm trying to put it in order in my brain.
Speaker 3:The first thing that probably comes to mind is recently I've had, like myself, I had a lot of PTSD to when I was really, really sad and in the hospital for a very long time and it feel like right now I'm in a really good place mentally, but it's like my trauma is always, like a fear of me getting to that place again, even though it's not really realistic because of the circumstances aren't the same. But you know, trauma like it's expensive, like I'm back in therapy, you know, and I feel like it takes a lot of me, so it's okay.
Speaker 4:So we know, expensive means multiple things, a lot of things Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not always monetary. No, definitely not.
Speaker 4:We've kind of extraneous. We've experienced yeah, I feel like we've experienced it on so many different levels. You know our first I don't know our first like trauma, if you want to see the capital T1 was that my husband, their, their dad passed away. He had cancer in 2014. He was diagnosed and 17 months later he passed away. For me, it was totally unexpected. I really didn't think he was going to die. And he was at home. We did it. He was in hospice and I remember my mom, who is a wonderful human being, the most loving, kind, beautiful human being, saying do you really want him to be at home in hospice? Because this is going to affect the kids if they see their father pass away and go through this? And you know it was his wish to be home and I felt just like I had to go with that and also my heart just felt like I needed him, we wanted him to be at home, we wanted to be with him, and so I think that that was a traumatic event, even though it was beautiful.
Speaker 4:But I think it hit us as more traumatic when, four years later, michael was diagnosed with a blood cancer. My husband died from a blood cancer. It was a different blood cancer. But when Michael was diagnosed, I think that also immediately brought up there was like when they said that Michael had a blood cancer, I think that everything stopped and it was hard to breathe. I don't really know what the doctor said for a few minutes, because it took me back to my husband dying and thinking that that was automatically a possibility for my son, and so I guess there was the expense there that you know. I don't know. It was like I was in debt from my husband and then it was they were going to take my son away as well.
Speaker 3:I think that could be the reason why he feels that way, as he's going to go back to that same mental state because of that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, the good part was, I think, that we were like okay, we've been through this, so now we know more, and we don't like to say fight. I don't know how you feel about that, micah. I don't know how do you feel about fighting words.
Speaker 2:I don't mind them.
Speaker 4:Okay. So sometimes it's hard because then I'm like did my husband lose and Michael's winning? So that's always like kind of a weird scenario for us, but it did give us a lot of I don't know motivation, inspiration that we really wanted Michael kind of to do this for my husband. You know, it was like redeeming him in a way that that debt or like can we redeem that debt by this one being okay in a way. And I think that was the first really big trauma was just the diagnosis. But then, michael, you were talking about the deeper trauma that continued.
Speaker 3:There's deeper traumas because you know you go through the cancer or and then you get the bone marrow transplant. I got into remission and then immediately I developed graft versus host disease. It became really bad. I was in the hospital for like five months. At one point we were together, of course, and I was really really, really sick and I was really really depressed and I just was like there was a point where I just didn't want to do it anymore. And that's the point. That was like the peak of the trauma that I have now is thinking of where I was back then. I remember that feeling of just not wanting to be alive because I was so depressed, it was so hard, and that's the PTSD that I have.
Speaker 3:And it is really traumatic to be in a perfect not perfect like right now. I'm in a very good mental state and a half been for the past year and a half since that happened, and it just feels weird because things can switch like that. You get sick and then something happens and then you can get back to that place. So it's very scary and it's also very scary to think about like relapsing or getting sick and something bad happening with your health or someone else getting cancer, you know, because it's not always like you. It's like, you know, I'm depending on people. I'm depending on my mom and I don't ever want her to get sick, and there's all these things that like factor into being someone with a chronic disease.
Speaker 3:It's really, it's really tough, but I think the trauma, just like taught us how to live and taught us how to help others to live, which has been a beautiful thing, because now we do these podcasts, we do messages on Instagram, like every day, of things that we've learned, that help us get through our trauma and that we think can help other people. So trauma is expensive, but sometimes it pays you back in a way, you know, because it can. It teaches you a lot.
Speaker 4:I thought is exact. I was going to say I think it has taught us so much, it shows a lot, and you know, one of the things that I think both of us agree on is that the good things, the lessons, don't take away the pain, like there is still PTSD. It doesn't take away the pain, but it certainly does kind of balance it in a way, and we try to lean our scale towards the good things that it's taught us, but there is a lot of PTSD and I see this, and you know I've seen it with Michael and, of course, for myself. You know, when my kids were little, I was the mom that was like eat the dirt, you're going to build your immunity. You know, I was that mom. I was like climb the trees, fall you could eat the crayons.
Speaker 3:Yes, eat the crayons, your poop will be a different color, you know.
Speaker 4:You'll be okay. Like I was literally the chill mom that was like, yes, go for it. And then now, because of trauma, because of PTSD, you know, michael gets a slight fever yesterday and I'm like, oh my God, I hope we don't end up in the ER. And you know, your mind kind of goes there. And then there was something else you said right before we started recording we were talking about, you know, and this also hits me hard Today, because it's my daughter's birthday today and I have three kids.
Speaker 4:So, michael, going through this, there were times that I had to really be there and I tried to. Of course, you try to split yourself as a parent in all situations you try to take care of all your kids equally, care for them. They all need to have different needs, though. So there were times that Michael's needs I needed to be much more present physically. Sometimes with Michael's needs, it was me being in the hospital so much. And you know I do look at my other two kids and sometimes I worry, you know, or so they did go through a year and a half of their father going through cancer and the majority of the time he did spend at home when he was sick, we chose the more palliative route hospice, and so sometimes I wonder do they pay a price? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. It's, it's, it's a, it's an. Again, it's a balance. I feel like they pay a price, but at the same time, it brought us so close together.
Speaker 2:And that's what I was going to say, Cause I was like it's never a time that you don't look at your social media or you guys, your interaction and your posts and the different things that you did. You die Sorry, Crystal, died over there.
Speaker 4:Oh no, crystal, though she don't have a whole pocket.
Speaker 3:Her headphones died.
Speaker 4:Her headphones died.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, sorry, that's what I meant by you get crystal died. I'm just put those on, oh yeah. She's so smart, oh my God.
Speaker 4:She has her name on her chair. Crystal, you're so cool, you guys are stars. That is the coolest thing ever. I you guys are like start. You're like in Hollywood the movies, when they have their names on the chair. That's so cool. Oh yeah, I know that we've seen on Micah's Instagram and that's just your stars.
Speaker 2:You guys are we're we're trying we're, you know, we're just like you guys with just trying to basically teach the world a little bit about you know, because I think that's like our biggest thing. It's like people don't they don't believe in mental health. So if you don't believe in mental health, then you can't believe in healing. You know, if you don't believe, there's something wrong with you. Yes, and that there's something wrong with all of us. You know, it's like I can relate to Michael with his PTSD.
Speaker 2:I kind of went through the same thing Every time I had a sniffle. It was like oh God, kansas, bag, you know a headache? Oh, I never had a headache like this before. Yeah, oh, my God, yeah, why is my ankle hurting? Cancer is bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like all these, can you hear? Yeah, I can hear that. Okay, so it's like all these weird things, but there was a couple of things that you said, so I kind of want to go back to, I guess, number one, before Crystal mess us up.
Speaker 4:Crystal, it's okay, we forgive you.
Speaker 2:I tried to edit it out. She just made my job a little harder, though.
Speaker 4:It's okay, keep it in. It's more entertaining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely it's real. It was because you was talking about your husband and keeping him in the house and I heard that that's kind of was like recommended, that that kind of was like the best thing to like let your children see what the parent is going through or the loved one is going through, like not to keep them from it.
Speaker 4:Okay. So yeah, I think that that is part of it. I think that for them, part of the healing is that they saw what their dad was going through. I think if it had been a big mystery, if it had been you know darkness, and he just like disappeared and died, I can imagine for three young kids what they would have thought and you know, that was part of it is for them to see and know and I was just praying that he was going to die peacefully and not too painfully and that was granted is that when he did pass away, it was actually we were, we happened to all be together and we were able to like we were holding him and we were, you know, saying I love you when he died, and that was just. You know, it was beautiful.
Speaker 4:I don't know if we manifested that. I'm going to hope, yes, yes, but yeah. But we've heard of other people that have been in hospice that it's not been easy. So I don't know, it was a gamble. But I agree with you, michael, like for me as a mom, as I said, I was that mom that I was like let's eat the dirt. So I think that was kind of eating the dirt too, was maybe way too much dirt. No, he didn't.
Speaker 3:No he didn't.
Speaker 4:Someone's going to be like oh my God, that explains why he got kids.
Speaker 3:Right now like I don't remember ever eating dirt by the way. So I think I don't know.
Speaker 4:I'm exaggerating, I'm just saying I wasn't the panicky mom, okay.
Speaker 2:I don't know what you're saying that you would admit to. You know that's what we need to discuss here. I ate dirt. I feel like I ate dirt too. I'm like what I don't know. Maybe, seriously, I probably ate your 20 years ago.
Speaker 4:You know, I think it's, it's, it's, I think it's good. Now people like spend money to put their feet in dirt and ground themselves, so hey, we were.
Speaker 2:Did you hear about the cat poop coffee?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:So there's like this it's like $10,000 a bag it might be more than that now and it's legit. Like they like feed these, these cats, like this special meal or diets or whatever, and then like the cat poop is what's used to like.
Speaker 4:I don't know. It's really weird.
Speaker 2:It's like to know they fertilize the beans with it or something.
Speaker 3:Whose idea was this?
Speaker 4:I don't know you guys can drink that yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm not drinking now. You're crazy.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, no, that is not, we have two cats.
Speaker 3:If we needed poop, we got it, and I was going to say we have enough for that at home.
Speaker 4:We don't need to pay for it, but I'm not. I'm not eating it.
Speaker 2:I think I read an article about it one time and I was like are people really out here paying to like it's because it's cool?
Speaker 4:Oh, please, I think it's cool to eat cash?
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 4:I don't know. Wait, what is the thing that people told you? Dog dewormer, dog. Have you ever gotten that in a DM we got multiple times people saying cure cancer with dog dewormer and we're like what Right you?
Speaker 2:know, I do. I do get weird things, but I never. I never got that, I never got that, but I do. I always have a whole bunch of and I appreciate all advice.
Speaker 2:So I'm not like these, these heels that are want to heal me and I'm like I am not sleeping with a bag of onions. Oh, that's not bad. That's not as cat poop Well, the cat poop. But one thing about you, ashley, is that you have a lot of love in you, and I'm pretty sure that is what your kids and feel now they're all grown right.
Speaker 2:So, pretty sure that there's something that you gave them, no matter where you were. Like I'm pretty sure they always knew they were loved. I worked, maybe understand it when they were younger why Michael got the attention he got. But you know, as you grow older you start to realize that you know I have this brother and he kind of separated himself from our family to raise his kids and very religious. But he did it because everybody in my family were doing negative things prison, drugs, you know those things so he kind of like took himself and like separated it from the family. Now we're coming back together and there's like questions about it. But now that we're discussing it is like I understand why he did everything that he did. So I'm pretty sure that you know you're you're thinking these things about your children, like most parents do. You know that I do all the right things, but you did the best that you could in that moment and that makes sense.
Speaker 4:And don't you think that most people do? I was just about to say that I feel like that is the one of the keys to like love and happiness is sometimes a hard word, because happiness sounds so fleeting but like joy and peace. If you forgive and just try to understand that I do think people are trying to do the best, wherever they are you know, I think people don't mean to hurt you or be negative towards you.
Speaker 3:It's just they don't understand.
Speaker 4:Like a lot of times, because you don't know the trauma they've been through. You know going to trauma.
Speaker 3:Everyone acts a certain way because of what they've been through.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I feel like everyone you know for Michael, I think the trauma is more obvious in our lives. The trauma has been like very blatant, but it's also given us. It's like the big T trauma, but it's also given us so much purpose, right, but I feel like everyone has some kind of trauma.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing is that everybody has some kind of trauma. Yeah, and I feel like that's like the key, the message to the world, like you have something. They say that a mom leaving a child in their diaper too long can cause trauma effects for them later on as an adult.
Speaker 3:Well, I will say I remember being in a diaper for too long. Mom, ptsd. Remember that day. That was horrible. How could you do that to me?
Speaker 4:He's so terrible.
Speaker 2:Now my mom and now I got OCD and I don't like to shit, okay. So one thing I don't like to do I don't want to eat because I don't want to shit, Okay first of all, michael's just those of you that are just listening and not seeing his face.
Speaker 4:He's just joking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are our joke.
Speaker 4:Definitely, definitely, definitely joking, but yeah, I, it's true, that's, that's the truth, and I think what I love about this podcast and what you're doing is that what you were saying earlier is mental health is not always a thing for everyone, and and I think that everyone has trauma Everyone needs to work on their mental health all of us and so I love that you're shining a light on that, because all of us have trauma. I don't want to say it's easier when it's bigger, but when it's bigger, it's just like right in your face, so like you have to deal with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're searching for the reasons behind bigger, but I think more like a, a physical type of trauma, like more of like a disease or more of something like that happened, like an injury. It's more like it's more accepting to go on like social media or share with someone oh, I have trauma because I had cancer. Instead of being like, oh, I have trauma because of a family issue or Something like that, people are more like, oh, you had cancer. And people like, oh, everyone has family issues, like I feel like it's so, it's so different, like my people like validate my trauma without even questioning it Because I'm like I have cancer Right, and this other people's traumas that aren't validated, which makes them feel like they have nothing wrong with them, which is a big problem right, yeah, and I think we did a podcast not too long ago Basically on this subject.
Speaker 2:like you know, it's like the statements oh, there's always somebody out there that has it worse, like that's not the best thing to say no. It's horrible when they're trying to vent to you. You know I'm saying, or you know, to minimize what they're going through, like, yes, it may be an actual fact. Maybe you are crying over this paper cut, but if that is the worst pain you ever felt, how am I to tell you that you don't feel?
Speaker 3:Exactly, that's. It's so true.
Speaker 4:Oh my god, I love that.
Speaker 3:you said that, that is my friends a lot of time, my friends who are very they live, we live in Miami and some of them have, like I don't know if I'll keep rubbing it in now.
Speaker 2:Now, if you tell me one more time that you live in Miami.
Speaker 3:Listen, okay, here we go Okay.
Speaker 3:We live in a place that has a lot of water, okay, and my friends have a boat and they go on their boat a lot and I obviously can't go on the boat because I can't really get any sun and that's like a huge thing and I can't like go on the ocean because of my port. During treatment, when I'm having to treat, a few days after treatment, and a lot of the times they'll come over and they'll kind of complain about things to me, about their their life and the things that like they want to do, that they can't do, and I'm just like I don't know. But then I'm like, yeah, to them that is like a big thing to them. To them they don't know anything else. So Before cancer and before everything I went through, I would complain about stupid stuff too. So I guess it makes sense.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what essentially is all stupid stuff. You know, yeah, we weren't existed to. I don't think we were created to Exist life in pain and sickness and ailments and all and all those kind of things. You know, I want to believe that our creator had a more Special purpose for us. Somewhere it got lost. But it's all stupid. You know, like it's all crazy. You know my just personal opinion.
Speaker 1:I think I think you're right. It's just my personal opinion.
Speaker 2:You know, I know that, like, I've had a lot of trauma in my life and it started before I can even, like I had trauma before I knew my ABCs. You know, like started at that young and it took me a long time to realize kind of what you said, what you guys were saying, and that was it had nothing to do with me. I was just a vessel at that time. Yes, what did mean it would have been any young kid available To take that pain that these people were causing because it was about them. Yes, a really long time, almost 40 years, if I was that old or whatever Realized that everything I went through had nothing to do with me.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, I was a consequence of other people's pain, I was a consequence of their suffering. You know, I just became a vessel for them to heal in their way. Because, especially at that time we talk about, you know, in the 1900s, um, no, where mental health was and it still is, I feel like there's still so many stigmas. It's kind of exactly what you said, michael, like if it's not a big trauma, if you're not raped and shot and your house was broken into and all your family members was killed, then it's not trauma.
Speaker 4:But I still want to go back. I still have to go back to Michael because you know, a lot of people also hear remission and they think that Michael is like all better and then that's another thing and I think that happens a lot. I know this podcast is not about cancer but because we're so close to the cancer community, we see that a lot in the cancer community that survivorship like people think they're in remission, they're all done there is. Living with this is lifelong and you know, I think that your whole life you spend maybe it's I don't know, maybe it's like an, it's just something you're going to spend forever dealing with.
Speaker 3:It's really hard to let go of things that happen to you in the past, especially because you've been through it. So now you know how to get through it and you think, okay, well, what happens if it comes back? Or what happens if I go through that again? I know what to do. But then someone like me, sometimes I do this and I'm trying not to do it as much as like. I'm always like okay, if anything happens, I know what to do now because I've been through it. But then that makes you think, oh, it could happen again.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing with like it's like that preparation, you preparing, preparing for nothing.
Speaker 4:It's waiting for the other shoe to drop. My cancer caregiver moms were always like we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, which is terrible.
Speaker 2:It's that PTSD, it's just well, you know what. To tell a little bit more of my personal story, I kind of feel like I bought cancer on myself by doing that. I feel like I manifested it and it may not be right or wrong, but because I was living life constantly waiting for that other shoe to drop, I mean I was saving and I was just hoarding and just making sure I had things because when cancer came back, because I knew it was gonna come back, you know.
Speaker 4:Oh, I can't thank. You manifested that. I just can't believe that. But I understand what you mean, like maybe you had another lesson to bring, but I can't believe you brought it on yourself. But I know what you mean.
Speaker 3:I understand that too.
Speaker 2:If I lived life another way, like if I would have lived life outside of cancer, would it had the ability to come back to me? Now, of course, it doesn't work that way. It's just me and my healing journey and my spiritual journey. Just trying to make sure you know, because I was in a dark place too. I mean, I just found out about my cancer come back in December and I gave up Like I was just like I'm done with this shit, I'm tired, Okay.
Speaker 3:He was like missing for.
Speaker 4:I thought I was gonna have to cut the cops out.
Speaker 2:Look it for him. I canceled like every podcast interview we had for the month of January got canceled. I laid in my bed. I just didn't wanna exist anymore. I was like this is retarded. Sorry, I know we're not supposed to use that word but I'm talking about cancer.
Speaker 4:It's like what's the matter?
Speaker 2:What's the matter with cancer? Okay, I'm just so sorry and yeah, it was kind of, you know so, when you were talking about the PTSD and just being in that depressed age I'm like. But you know, one thing I realized is I needed to allow myself to go through it.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's, very important too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I did learn that that's it okay. And it's funny because I gave myself the time to tell you what to ask that you get to Sunday. You get to Sunday to go ahead and why and why and why is me Okay? So it's my party and I'm a cry. I want to to Sunday. And then once Monday came, I had to wake up with a new attitude. Now it didn't work that way, but by Tuesday I was good.
Speaker 4:You know there's like have you heard of this? Like the five minute rule is that you let yourself get upset about something and you time it. You get like pissed off. Something happens. You just like give yourself, get pissed off as pissed off as you want for like five minutes and you set a timer and then the more you let yourself do that, the less time you need. But it is important, micah, it is so important to get mad sometimes and to go through that, because if you hadn't like you hit the bottom so that you can rise up. I truly do believe that sometimes we have to go down there, otherwise we're just coasting in the same spot and we're not acknowledging the feelings.
Speaker 3:It's very important to feel the feelings.
Speaker 2:Right Feel these fucking feelings.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 4:No, it's true, it really is so important and it's it takes a lot of courage and bravery to have hope Right. You know it takes a lot of courage, Definitely.
Speaker 2:Now I wanted to ask this question, michael, for you real quick. Sure, I don't know, I hate this so much. People telling me, oh you look good.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, someone said it perfectly. Someone's like yeah, I have cancer, I'm not ugly.
Speaker 4:I told him that someone said it.
Speaker 2:Someone said it Okay, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe you said it, but I felt it. You know he felt it. I felt it. It was deep, though, right, yeah, it was deep.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3:Except when I was on steroids, then I was pretty ugly.
Speaker 2:A little bit. I thought I saw a picture of you and I was like okay, michael, used to be a little buff.
Speaker 4:No, there was a moment that he didn't look so good, but whatever, he was still beautiful inside.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I meant buff as in like buff. Oh no, when I was on steroids, like the prednisone.
Speaker 4:Timeout cancer steroids no.
Speaker 2:I know I was talking about pre-cance, I guess.
Speaker 4:That was just natural beauty. Then that was working out of the gym.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I told you he was talking to you, but does it bother you, michael?
Speaker 4:Is that what you were going to ask? Michael, does that just drive you crazy when people say it was?
Speaker 2:crazy because I went to the doctor today just to kind of go over numbers and you know a half of the tests done. So it was just kind of like the review, the tests and stuff and it was just like all the nurses like oh, you look good, you look good today. You don't even look sick and I want to be like bitch. I'm gonna kick you in your throat Because it was just irritating to like like how dare you take that from you? You know, it was like you don't have the right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's like we said, everyone's just doing their best. They're just trying to be nice, and it sucks to hear it sometimes, but that's their way of like, trying to comfort you and make you feel. Normal is the way I see it, because, my friends, will tell me it's not comforting.
Speaker 4:But like you do look so good, I was literally thinking it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was thinking it too.
Speaker 4:I'm not gonna say it because of that reason, because I know I we've talked about it Like I got cancer. I'm not ugly, but like I don't know To me.
Speaker 2:I guess they bothered me that it was like medical professionals. I think that was the part that hit me the most because it was like you know what I'm going through? Just write my chart.
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, exactly I know, I just tell them, I like your shirt today.
Speaker 2:It's like I'm not getting cursed out no more.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I don't know. I think I think sometimes medical professionals though, it's good if they're looking at you, like I actually appreciated that sometimes, when maybe his numbers wouldn't be so great, but they'd be like you know what? His numbers aren't the best, but he really looks good. So I want to take that into consideration, that the fact that he looks good, his spirits are up. We're not only going to look at his crappy numbers and I felt like sometimes I'm not trying to justify them because he's been annoyed by that too.
Speaker 2:You know you are right though, but I guess it's the whole. Like you look good to be sick, yeah.
Speaker 4:I know, yeah, you know, let me feel like shit.
Speaker 2:Or you could just say I look good, but why I got to look good to be sick? So when I ain't sick I don't look good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true, because they're like oh you're sick and you look good for a sick person.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:So it is kind of like a pen I understand what you're getting at.
Speaker 2:It makes sense. It bothers me a little bit, like and you don't look good.
Speaker 4:Literally on Michael's post this morning, someone was like you look so handsome, your hair looks so good, your jawline and your eyes, and I'm like what, what about me?
Speaker 2:Right, Like I did cut my bangs. It's like someone do you guys can just wake up and like, that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's me. She was literally just telling that to me a few minutes ago. She's like it's not fair. Michael, you just wake up and you're beautiful.
Speaker 4:I have to do all these things I don't do anything though, so I really can't complain Because they don't do the things. I could do the thing, but, girl, I could do the things, but I just don't do them.
Speaker 2:It's funny I was telling Chris too, because lately people have been asking for, like, professional photos and I was like we really don't have any. You know we haven't. You know, our podcast kind of blew up a lot quicker than we expected, so I was really unprepared and that's of course. I was like well, you're gonna, we're gonna have to get professional pictures done, which means you have to wear makeup Listen to this. Which means you have to wear makeup. And she's like I wear makeup every day and I'm like oh that is horrible.
Speaker 3:That's awful.
Speaker 2:Mascara. You just talk about eyeliner and mascara. I'm like that's not makeup, like you need a full beat. You know, I'm saying like you need to look like Miss Piggy. Oh my God.
Speaker 4:That is okay. That is trauma. That would be expensive because, girl, you have to go buy all that expensive makeup now.
Speaker 2:Seriously, right, right, but no, I was just giving her a hard time. I was just giving her a hard time even though she is gonna have to wear makeup. Okay, michael, though we're going to let you close this out, though, because I want to see now if you're still with that girl, my girlfriend. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm so with her.
Speaker 2:My daughter called her that girl. What is your name, suzy?
Speaker 3:Suzy Hi.
Speaker 2:Suzy I know, and what's your daughter's name?
Speaker 4:My daughter is Jennifer.
Speaker 2:Happy birthday, jennifer. Thank you so much so.
Speaker 4:Stephen is first one.
Speaker 2:You pillows that I'm gonna send one for her.
Speaker 4:It's Stephen, michael and Jennifer, the three kids. So, and yeah, you're closing this out, alright, so how's he closing the tab?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what do you want me to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want you to kind of I mean, we talked about a lot. You know, we talked about a lot.
Speaker 2:I know, you know so much practice of this conversation, you know. But you know our tagline is counting the cost so you can make the change, you know. So it's like by dealing with a lot of issues or not dealing with a lot of issues or just taking the time, kind of like you, you know, you said you was in that state of depression, but taking the time to get out of that, you know, it's like what would you say to people who are in those situations that don't want to take the time to move forward or to not be bitter? I mean, I feel like I have friends that have been bitter for like 20 years. I'm like why are you? The guy is moved on, he doesn't have 13 kids, he's got grand babies and you still stuck on him in 23 years. Like, how do we move on? Or how do you start to move on in your opinion?
Speaker 3:You got to talk about it somehow. You got to express it. You can't just try to put it away, keep yourself busy and distract yourself. You literally have to find a time where you can just cry about it and let it all out, and let that anger and pain out, because it's just going to sit there and it's not going to move. It's just going to be stuck. It's like it's like when you're constipated and you have to go for a walk so you can poop. You have to do that with your emotions. You have to do the same thing.
Speaker 2:First of all, I didn't know that was a method.
Speaker 3:Thank, you Well, yeah, it is a method, of course.
Speaker 2:Like why hasn't no one ever told me this? I can't support that. No one's told you that you got to move your body.
Speaker 4:You got to move your body. I'll move your body and it will help.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm just, thinking of my dog.
Speaker 1:My dog literally sniffs and walks all over and like finds a perfect spot to poop.
Speaker 3:I mean you got to let it out. You got to let out at one point because that's the only way you're going to heal and you have to deal with it because it's just going to eat you alive slowly if you don't. Right, and then it affects so much other parts of your life and I think that's what you're going to carry it with you and you're going to treat other people not the best and you can't do that. It's not fair to everyone else.
Speaker 4:But I want to add on your jobs. It's what he said You've got to let it out, but then when you let it out, you have to also let it go, okay, because sometimes letting it out, I think doesn't mean keep letting it out for 20 years. Let it out, get it out and then let it go. And sometimes, you know, our past informs us, but what we really have is this present moment, and I think that that's one of the things is also forgiveness, and sometimes forgiveness I'm not talking about maybe for your friend, it's forgiving this partner or whatever, but sometimes it's forgiving what's happened in our lives too. It's being like, okay, it happened, I dealt with it. Now I forgive that this happened.
Speaker 4:Because what am I going to be mad at God? Because Michael got cancer. If I hold on to that, I don't think it's hurting God. I'm pretty sure it's hurting me. Am I going to be mad at a doctor? Am I going to be mad at something? No, and I think it. Michael had a great point about letting it out. We always talk about like cry and make space for the joy.
Speaker 4:I think that's really good thing to do is cry and make space for the joy, but it's also, you know, forgive life.
Speaker 2:We all we're separated. A scenario out my mind because I'm, like it's true, like you, holding on to it. Let it out, flush it and let it go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know this is when I really like shit conversation. I don't know how that happened. From the cats to the diapers, Michael walking and being constipated.
Speaker 2:I'm a little scared because the moral of the story is to let go of shit.
Speaker 4:Yes, he found the title first podcast. Yeah, all the shit.
Speaker 2:Let go of shit. Yes, it comes down for and just to say that the little scenario I gave earlier was just an example it's nobody I really know in life.
Speaker 2:He says with a smile Just in case they do or don't listen. If they were real Well, we thank you guys for coming on again. When I tell you, I was really confused about where I was going to go with this podcast, but I knew that it needed to continue going and I know I wanted you guys to be a part of it. So thank you guys for coming on and it's such an honor.
Speaker 4:It's an honor Love you.
Speaker 3:We would do anything for you, we could be on every day.
Speaker 4:Anytime you want to talk, we're here we love you.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, we're going to have you come back on to these fucking feelings where people can see you.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, we will do that.
Speaker 2:They need to see that Michael is joking, true, true.
Speaker 3:Because he's exactly.
Speaker 2:He has like this tone where it's like that we don't like cancel. Michael just got his cancel.
Speaker 4:Don't say that, don't say that, micah.
Speaker 2:But thank you guys again for coming on. You guys are so dope, so amazing. Thank you, michael and mom talk. Cancer is the podcast. I will leave all of your links. Make sure you support them. They do so many great things for cancer community but by doing that they do it for all communities, because when you touch one person, you touch them all, and I don't mean touch nasty.
Speaker 4:So we love you so much, micah. Yeah, we love you, and thank you, crystal, I love you guys too.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, and we will see you next week. Peace.
Speaker 1:And that brings us to the end of yet another insightful episode of Trauma is Expensive. I'm signing off on behalf of your host, Micah Bravery, reminding all you brave souls to continue counting the cost and making the change. Don't forget to visit wwwtraumaisexpensivecom, a dynamic space for understanding, healing and transformation, where we fuel the journey to turn pain into progress. Until we meet again, stay resilient, stay empowered and remember the mantra count the cost and make the change. Thank you for being part of the conversation. We bid you farewell. Until next time.